Vermont Resource Spotlight on Camp Outright!

Transcript:

Emma Makdessi (00:00):

And so after camp, you know, of course we do evaluations, and that was kind of the overwhelming response. I don’t even think I told you this, but that was the overwhelming response in the feedback form that we sent campers, is that they left camp feeling a sense of hope.

Chynah Boise (00:21):

Hello, I’m Chynah Boise and you are listening to the Social Work Lens. The Social Work lens is a collaboration between the University of Vermont’s child Welfare training partnership and the state of Vermont. Today I have the fortune of talking with Emma Makdessi , director of Camp programs at Outright Vermont, and I’m gonna let them introduce themselves.

Emma Makdessi (00:42):

Thanks, Chyinah. Yeah, so my name is Emma. I use them pronouns. I’m the director of camp programs at Outright Vermont. And I think the nutshell version of what I do is I’m camp all day, every day. The vision, the expansion, the implementation the creation of summer camps with a queer twist is ultimately just what I do. And I found myself in the world of camp Wow. At this point, like almost two decades ago.

Chynah Boise (01:17):

Wow.

Emma Makdessi (01:17):

I can, yeah, I can say that now. <Laugh> in many capacities as well, not necessarily as a camper, but I did attend a one week leadership program that like, was kind of like a camp, but otherwise I’ve just been a counselor or a director or an assistant director in some way, shape or form. And so I’ve been doing camp a long time, day camps, overnight camps, excursion camps, virtual camps, <laugh>, you know, that’s just been something that I keep finding myself in, and I’m excited to now be able to say that I’m the camp director of queer summer camps.

Chynah Boise (01:52):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s really cool. And I definitely wanna dig into a lot of that with you. But the reason that we have you here today specifically is because camp applications are gonna be opening. Can you tell us a little bit about the, the dates information about applications?

Emma Makdessi (02:11):

Yeah. So Camp Outright is a summer camp with a queer twist for Youth 13 to 17, and we open our applications for Camp outright on Monday, February 2nd, and they stay open until Monday, March 2nd. And so that process is just an application process. It’s not registering for camp. We do this intentionally. It’s a way for us to be accessible. Years, years, years ago when we would open the camp outright application, it would fill up within 30 minutes.

Chynah Boise (02:45):

Wow.

Emma Makdessi (02:45):

And this first come, first serve way didn’t make it accessible for folks who couldn’t get to a computer in time or who didn’t have caregivers at home, who could fill it out from a laptop at home and what have you. So we keep this application open for a month, giving folks enough time to apply, and then my co-director and I are very intentional in creating a balanced cohort for each session of camp. So that’s a little bit of our process for the application.

Chynah Boise (03:15):

Awesome. So we’ll circle back to those dates so that people can make sure to get those on their calendars, and we’ll have information in the show notes, but so that individual people listening to this now know. Can you tell us, you mentioned that Camp Outright is a summer camp program with a queer twist. Can you explain a little bit more about that? What that looks like? What kinds of campers you typically see? Yeah…

Emma Makdessi (03:46):

Yeah. Okay. I’m so excited to talk about Camp Outright. You know, what we mean by a queer twist is that everything is done in the lens of kind of queering up what we know about summer camp. And it’s a balance between what we think to be a summer camp. So you’re staying in cabins, you’re doing archery and ax throwing, but also there’s that queer twist to it, which is there’s a queer prom, there’s a fashion show, but there’s also a lot of intentional conversation about identity and what it means to show up. As a queer person in a queer space, creating a queer community, which is ultimately what happens at camp for many and trans campers, when they step onto camp, it’s the very first time for many of them to be surrounded by all queer campers and queer adults. And I think that is probably the biggest queer twist of them all, is that for the first time in many of these campers and even the volunteers that come to camp, that they are in a queer space finding their people a sense of belonging, an opportunity to just be themselves respected for who they are. And, and that’s what, that’s what we create at Camp Outright.

Chynah Boise (05:13):

Yeah. That’s incredible. I’ve had the great privilege of getting to see this firsthand.

Emma Makdessi (05:19):

Yeah. We’ve had a privilege of having you at home. <Laugh> is more like it. I

Chynah Boise (05:24):

Appreciate that. I just want to say that as you know, my first time going to camp and getting to witness it, felt like magic.

Emma Makdessi (05:36):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (05:37):

What you’re describing seeing the connection and seeing that reflection in youth’s eyes of hope and future and optimism was, was as close to magic as I think I’ve gotten in my 34 years. So that is a, a little bit of what I also wanted to touch on with you today is as the director, as a co-director of Camp Outright, you have had no small part in cultivating that magic. Can you talk a little bit to what you and REL have done the applications being one example Right? Like, I think that that is such an incredible example of being thoughtful and reflective on that process to elevate equity for youth and for families. And so what are some other initiatives that you all have started that has led to this community that you’ve created?

Emma Makdessi (06:43):

Yeah. That’s a great question and I think you really hit it when you talked about the thoughtfulness and what I like to call is intentionality. And, every step along the way as we put camp together, as we bring in voices of campers and volunteers, as we create the curriculum or the programming for camp, every step is very intentional. And it is to cultivate a space that feels magical and that is just bursting with queer joy. We talk about queer joy so much. So in addition to having an accessible application process, we also offer full and partial scholarships. And this is not something that I created. This is something that outright has been committed to for years, even before me. And we, we do it in a way that doesn’t ask for folks to justify whether or not they need a scholarship. We just ask. And folks will get a full or a partial scholarship. And that’s another commitment to having, or giving the opportunity for caregivers to send campers to a queer summer camp. We are only one of, I think maybe 12 across the country. And I wanna say we’re probably one of the most affordable summer camps. And that’s done intentionally because we want to continue to create a space where campers can show up and be there. We also help to arrange carpooling and we’ll pick campers up from the airport if they fly in because, you know, Vermont <laugh>, you know … Like, some people don’t even know where Vermont is on a map, <laugh>, so let alone a camp in Vermont. But we’re really trying to bridge the gaps between, you know, what it means to, to come to camp, and then what it means to come to a camp in Vermont, and how to make it so that campers can see themselves here and see themselves at camp outright.

Chynah Boise (08:38):

Yeah. just to jump in really quickly, ’cause on that note, you mentioned identity and I wanna, talk a little bit about intersectionality. There is a lot of intention around BIPOC staff and BIPOC campers can you speak to that a little bit? What, what you all have done for our BIPOC queer youth?

Emma Makdessi (09:03):

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we are in the second widest state . In the nation. And so there’s a lot of work that goes into making sure that camp feels like a place for our BIPOC campers and our BIPOC staff. And so a lot of that is relationship building. It’s continued relationship building with previous campers, with organizations and partners here in Vermont that serve BIPOC youth. And it’s also continued education and social justice programming that happens at Camp outright, understanding that we can’t just come into a space and solely talk about our queerness. We have to talk about all of our identities, and we have to come at it from an intersectional approach. So there is an expectation that we are engaging in these conversations at camp. Our staff or our camp volunteers are training them. Our campers go through a program called Unity, where we talk about intersectional identities. And so it’s a lot of intention around what it means to be a predominantly white space where we have BIPOC campers and BIPOC volunteers.

Chynah Boise (10:20):

Awesome. Awesome. I’m gonna, be a pop out window here for a second because I want to acknowledge the fact that folks who’ve listened to my episodes in the past might be really following along. Anybody who’s starting to listen from this episode might be starting to feel frustrated because we’re using, I am using language that might feel new to them. So I wanna just pull out really quickly and talk about queerness. We’ve used the term queer a few times now. That is largely an umbrella term for what we talk about as L-G-B-T-Q individuals. That’s the most simple definition. I can give for that. Would you agree, Emma?

Emma Makdessi (11:05):

Yeah. Essentially

Chynah Boise (11:06):

Okay, and then BIPOC, black, indigenous people of color. So I’m really referring to our campers and our staff who might have marginalized racial identities. And then intersectionality we’ve touched on in previous episodes, but that’s when we start to talk about the intersection of multiple identities. So I just wanted to pull out really quickly so that folks can continue to follow along as we engage in this discussion. You mentioned Emma intentionality, and we cannot talk about camp outright without talking about intentional community. I also can’t say the word intentional community without doing a little arm wiggle.

Emma Makdessi (11:51):

Why are your, why are your arms wiggling <laugh>?

Chynah Boise (11:53):

We’re not gonna talk about my health issues today, <laugh>, but it has become, it, it has become like such a thing at, at camp outright, not just from a philosophical and framework perspective, but it’s also like on the tip of everybody’s tongues,

Emma Makdessi (12:12):

right.

Chynah Boise (12:12):

Intentional community.

Emma Makdessi (12:14):

100%.

Chynah Boise (12:14):

Say more about that.

Emma Makdessi (12:15):

Yeah. So there are two, what we call like core values at camp outright create joy and intentional community. And we talk about it all the time. And I’ve been asked this question like, well, what, what does it mean? Because camp is a space where you’re creating a community or you’re creating this container for youth and volunteers to thrive and grow in. And so when I talk about intentional community at camp outright, I think I’m talking more about how we are all coming in as queer folks, building our own systems and building our own structures to support everyone, and ultimately to give queer and trans youth tools that they need to be resilient. Knowing that, you know, camp is just like a small piece of a larger picture of, of the world that we exist in. And so there’s a lot of conversation. I had mentioned this before, there’s a lot of conversation on race and ethnicity, on socioeconomic status, on ability, religious beliefs. We celebrate gender and sexual identities. You know, we talk about privilege, we talk about oppression, and we hold and have conversations where we recognize that these things show up in this community that we are creating. And so it’s not one where we will avoid having hard conversations when something shows up, right? Part of creating this intentional community is saying, you said something that impacted somebody else. And so we are going to talk about it. And sometimes we’ll talk about it on a one-on-one, or sometimes it’s maybe a larger group conversation. And I will say other camps do this, but really talk about it a lot at the beginning of camp because we want our campers to know that we are going to engage in hard conversations because we are creating a space for queer and trans folks to thrive. And it looks like talking about what’s happening and addressing things with each other and holding each other accountable.

Chynah Boise (14:40):

Yeah. I think that’s, it’s so special. And also I mean, I think that you’ve done a really great job describing it and it’s hitting me that it’s something that I think you have to experience.

Emma Makdessi (14:53):

Yeah, you do.

Chynah Boise (14:54):

Because let me think about this because it’s similar to the conversation that I had with the youth organizer that, that I interviewed recently Emmett. And talking about shifting, shifting away from this idea that youth can’t be involved in matters to do with the world from that micro like, like you’re talking about interpersonal conflict to the macro of like, what the hell is going on in the world. And as you were talking about how it works at camp, I was also thinking like, yeah, these are youth who exist in this world and so they deserve the respect of gaining those skills and being included and being held accountable and holding each other accountable in this really holding environment. So I’m so appreciative of that. And it’s a lot more fun than it sounds

Emma Makdessi (15:57):

<Laugh> a lot. That’s why I’m like, when you’re doing the hand wiggle earlier, that came from our skit, our intentional community skit. My hands are wiggling too. Yeah.

Chynah Boise (16:06):

And the campers are all doing it,

Emma Makdessi (16:08):

All of them all the time. All

Chynah Boise (16:09):

The time. Yeah. And they’re making connections too, because it’s not just they’ll notice a friend showing up in a way that reflects our, you know, common values and then they’ll do the arm wave and say, intentional community. So even though they’re like joking around, they’re making the connection, this is what intentional community looks like. And that’s so beautiful.

Emma Makdessi (16:32):

It is.

Chynah Boise (16:33):

So thank you for that. I think that we could all benefit from building and cultivating intentional communities.

Emma Makdessi (16:40):

I mean, I think, so

Chynah Boise (16:42):

Something that I wanted to to circle back on is if you don’t mind as you were mentioning the roughly 12 summer camps nationally, was that in the United States. It made me think of the times. So one thing that I like to do when campers arrive is I post myself up at the, the porch and I greet every single one of them and you know, ask them where they’re from. And when I get campers that are from out of State, I will often ask them, how did you hear about camp? And so many times I’ve had campers look at me and say, I just Googled.

Emma Makdessi (17:21):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (17:21):

Queer Summer camp.

Emma Makdessi (17:22):

100%. That’s most, yeah. Most of the answers I received are that.

Chynah Boise (17:26):

Yeah. And they show up from places like Florida and West Virginia and Washington, DC They’re coming from all over to come to our summer camp here in Vermont.

Emma Makdessi (17:39):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (17:39):

And summer camp is growing.

Emma Makdessi (17:41):

Summer Camp is Growing.

Chynah Boise (17:43):

Can you talk a little bit to me about the changes that are coming and what that means for the program?

Emma Makdessi (17:49):

Sure. So, I mean, I think before I talk about expansion of camp programming with Outright Vermont, I have to talk about how we’ve already expanded.

Chynah Boise (18:00):

Yes.

Emma Makdessi (18:01):

Because a couple years ago we started a camp with a nonprofit, a nature center actually in Montpelier called the North Branch Nature Center. And so with Outright Vermont and with the North Branch Nature Center, we created Camp Branch Out, which is a nature-based day camp for queer and gender creative kids, 10 to 12. And that was the first step in expanding queer programming and being responsive to the needs of queer and trans youth. And for this, it was specifically for 10 to 12 year olds who’ve been asking for some sort of camp programming. And this is a beautiful partnership. It’s such a cute camp.

Chynah Boise (18:46):

I bet.

Emma Makdessi (18:46):

I love Camp Branch out. I don’t.. I love a lot of camps. Day camp kind of falls on the bottom of my list, if I’m being honest, because Day Camp doesn’t give you the same thing that an overnight camp does, which is like that connection and that bonding that happens when you’re sharing a space with other people, you kind of reset every day at a day camp. But there’s always something special when you bring queer and gender creative kids that young into a space where they are not the only kid. So, and then you bring them outside <laugh>.

Chynah Boise (19:19):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (19:19):

You know, when you’re doing a lot of nature activities that also have a queer twist. So I do have to start with Camp Ranch Out being one step in how we are expanding our camp programming. But I know what you’re talking about, and you’re talking about the fact that we, we purchased a piece of land called Sunrise in Southern Vermont. And everyone on staff, everyone at Outright is so excited,

Chynah Boise (19:44):

so excited.

Emma Makdessi (19:45):

And I’m especially excited <laugh>, because that means now we are gonna have a permanent home for camp outright, but also whatever type of camp programming I can imagine. You know, and, and I think what I’ve been saying, and what’s gonna be true is that it’s going to be in response to the needs of queer and trans youth and what they’re asking for in terms of camp programming. But you will see, like the general you, you’ll see more camp programming coming out of outright Vermont, because now we have the space for it, and now everything just our summer opened up, so there are a lot more possibilities of how long camp is the type of camp, how many campers and volunteers we get to bring on site. And for, what I’m especially excited about is when I think about programming, is that we actually have access to a full waterfront now.

Chynah Boise (20:46):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (20:46):

With canoes and kayaks and paddleboards. And so now we get to like, have that . Be <laugh> an option.

Chynah Boise (20:56):

Oh, those kids love waterfront.

Emma Makdessi (20:58):

They do <Laugh>. They do. And like now you’re gonna throw in paddle boarding and kayaking and Yeah. I’m hoping for, I don’t know if I’ve told you this yet, Chynah, but what I really want is an inflatable obstacle course on the water.

Chynah Boise (21:10):

Oh my gosh.

Emma Makdessi (21:11):

Because at another camp I worked at, we had it and it was the coolest thing.

Chynah Boise (21:17):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (21:17):

Like a mini blob. You know what a blob is?

Chynah Boise (21:19):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (21:19):

Yeah. That’s what I want. So

Chynah Boise (21:23):

The lifeguard in me is….

Emma Makdessi (21:25):

The lifeguard in you. I understand <laugh>, but with a waterfront means more lifeguards means more safety procedures. You know, I’m prepared on that end <laugh>. But think about it,

Chynah Boise (21:38):

it is exciting,

Emma Makdessi (21:39):

you know, but that’s what it means.

Chynah Boise (21:41):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (21:41):

When we have sunrise is just so many more opportunities.

Chynah Boise (21:45):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (21:45):

To create programming.

Chynah Boise (21:47):

I’m imagining what, I mean, I’m not imagining as an adult who’s experiencing the world right now I’m extending that to what it must feel like to be a queer youth now seeing everything that’s happening nationally and then seeing a permanent space. Right here at home. Yeah. I can only imagine the security.

Emma Makdessi (22:14):

Yeah. That’s the word that I was just thinking of. It is it’s security.

Chynah Boise (22:18):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (22:18):

It’s knowing that we’re not gonna go anywhere.

Chynah Boise (22:20):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (22:21):

Outright Vermont is in this. You know, we’re not going anywhere.

Chynah Boise (22:24):

Yeah. And I know that, at least for me, and I feel pretty comfortable extending it to the other staff an intention to love and care for these youth as much as we can in the time that we have with them, knowing the hardness that that is the world around them. So whatever messaging we can send to, to youth during that time of like, you are loved and cared for and there is a future for you that feels important. And what a, what a great foundation camp Outright has laid for, for that.

Emma Makdessi (23:04):

Can I share a story? Please. Okay. So, and it’s also a little bit more of how we really bring in the voices of our campers and our volunteers. And also, I wanna say you’re saying staff, I’m saying volunteers, ultimately we’re talking about the same thing.

Chynah Boise (23:21):

Right? Right, right.

Emma Makdessi (23:22):

But you we’re gonna use volunteers for this sense, but I was gonna say that we have a camper advisory team, CAT and a camp advisory staff team CAST. And that is an intentional time where we bring together campers from the previous summer and volunteers from the previous summer to talk through some of the things that came up and to help with programming help with policy. What’s, what I really like about Camp Outright is that each year there’s a shift and it’s done in response to what CAT our camper advisory team has asked for, or some of the suggestions that CAST has mentioned. Because what the type of camp director I don’t want to be is the one who says, this is how it’s always been, and so we’re just gonna keep it this way. That that model just doesn’t work for me. So every year, CAT and CAST helped to inform camp, and the reason I brought them up is that for 2025, in a really heavy conversation with CAT, we were talking about our Unity programming, and we were talking about how we want it to shape out and what campers want to get from it. And they asked for hope, they wanted a theme of hope because of what you were just talking about. Chynah is what and trans youth are experiencing right now. And our campers specifically requested that as they went through the Unity programming, as they picked the tracks they were in. And I can talk a little bit more about that if, if you want, but that ultimately they leave feeling more hopeful because that that’s what they, that’s what they asked for. And so after camp, of course we do evaluations, and that was kind of the overwhelming response. I don’t even think I told you this, but that was the overwhelming response in the feedback form that we sent campers, is that they left camp feeling a sense of hope.

Chynah Boise (25:30):

Oh,

Emma Makdessi (25:31):

I know, I know. So yeah, that’s what camp does. There’s magic, there’s belonging, there’s community, there’s joy and there’s hope that we’re gonna get through this. You know?

Chynah Boise (25:46):

That’s beautiful. I do kind of want you to talk about the Unity tracks.

Emma Makdessi (25:50):

Sure.

Chynah Boise (25:50):

Because there was a grand ball last year, <laugh>

Emma Makdessi (25:54):

<Laugh>, there was a ball. Okay. So Unity is, I feel like now I’m throwing around intention a lot, but it is our intentional social justice programming. It happens each day on the first and last day. It’s everyone together. And the other three days campers have selected into being in a track. And I am going to try and remember the tracks. There was a track. okay. I think I’m just gonna start naming ones that I remember from the years past.

Chynah Boise (26:25):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (26:25):

There was an animism. One there was one on Disability Justice. So I think, I think listeners will get the.

Chynah Boise (26:35):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (26:35):

Get the point of our team of Unity facilitators come together and they create these tracks for campers for those three days on the last day, campers share what they learned. And you know, what I just remembered, what made the summer different is that our campers from the Camper advisory team actually requested the Unity tracks. So there was, they requested something on nature. And something on advocacy and activism.

Chynah Boise (27:08):

Yep.

Emma Makdessi (27:08):

And one on Hope. And I think that’s how the queer Art one came to be, was to show how queer art has shaped and been used as, excuse me, and been used as activism.

Chynah Boise (27:26):

Yep.

Emma Makdessi (27:27):

So that was requested by our campers and our Unity facilitators created tracks around that request. And so our campers have a lot of say, actually in how parts of camp are run.

Chynah Boise (27:39):

It’s Beautiful. And then

Emma Makdessi (27:40):

It’s so cool. I love it.

Chynah Boise (27:41):

There’s buy-in. I mean, I hate using the term buy-in, but then there’s buy-in. Right. Like, it’s, it’s programming that they’re invested in because it’s program that they’ve asked for.

Emma Makdessi (27:49):

Yeah. And, and they’ll say to me, Emma, it’s so cool to see the changes that have happened at camp based off of being on CAT.

Chynah Boise (27:58):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (27:59):

And what’s  also started to happen, which I am really proud of, is unprompted, I don’t even have to say anything anymore. Other campers will say, oh, and if you didn’t like this, or if you want something to be different, you can join CAT.

Chynah Boise (28:13):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (28:13):

And like, this is cool because I, again, want camp outright to be a place where not just campers feel like they can help influence the shape and the direction that outright goes in, but also that our volunteers.

Chynah Boise (28:27):

Yep.

Emma Makdessi (28:27):

Have a voice in it. And I think that’s also where the intentional community peace comes in. And also to what you said earlier, our volunteers hold our campers in such a caring and loving way, but they also do that with each other. And I mean, I’m, I feel lucky, and I, I think I can speak Farrell, who’s my co-director, that we have such a solid group of volunteers who come in focused on campers and who are there for the campers. And that’s not always the, the case at other summer camps. Either. But we’re caring for queer and trans youth, and we’re also caring for other queer and trans adults. And so that means we are focused on, on building the space so that people feel welcome, like they belong there.

Chynah Boise (29:19):

Beautiful. And again, just my opinion, but I think that you’ve, nailed it. And I’m excited to see how it gets shaped going forward.

Emma Makdessi (29:31):

Yeah, me too. And thank you.

Chynah Boise (29:34):

So before I because I wanna circle back, of course, to the applications I have a couple of what I’m going to call rapid fire questions. Great, in regard to camp applications and what folks need to know. But before we circle back to that, I wanted to ask you what else do you think is important for us to know about Camp Outright? Or what do you wanna tell us?

Emma Makdessi (30:01):

Oh, what do I wanna tell you? I wanna say so many things.

Speaker 1 (30:07):

I wanna remind folks that camp is a magical space. There’s a lot of joy at Camp Outright that if you are thinking of sending your caregiver or your caregivers thinking of sending your camp camper to camp and you’re a caregiver, and you just have a whole bunch of questions, I will, or if you’re a camper listening and you wanna go, I’ll also always be here to answer any questions. If folks are like, I don’t even know about Vermont. Like, why would I go there? I would love to talk to you about how beautiful camp is. You know, and one thing that I do want folks to know is that we’re not at Sunrise yet. That won’t be for another couple of years. And so where I can say we are now, you know, ’cause we’re thinking about safety here. What I can say is that you’ll get the official address to camp once you have been accepted to camp in terms of how long it takes to get there. Imagine if you’re landing at the Burlington airport. You are… It’s 40 minutes from the airport. So it’s, it’s not deep into <laugh> like the mountains of Vermont. It’s, it’s actually pretty close by and so folks can’t imagine seeing themselves going to a camp in Vermont. I just wanna say it’s, it’s really easy to get there. And I’m like, what do I wanna say? Camp is amazing.

Chynah Boise (31:23):

It’s amazing.

Emma Makdessi (31:24):

It’s so much fun. We have a carnival night.

Chynah Boise (31:26):

It’s so fun. Yes. And you can, you listening? Yes. I want you to know that you could dunk Emma.

Emma Makdessi (31:35):

Well, splash <laugh> because it’s a splash tower.

Chynah Boise (31:38):

It’s a splash tower.

Emma Makdessi (31:39):

There’s a bucket of water above me.

Chynah Boise (31:42):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (31:42):

And a target to hit. And I love <laugh>. I love messing with campers and be like, I don’t think you can get, like, you can hit the target.

Chynah Boise (31:53):

And those campers have arms. They do, they do hit that target. Emma,

Emma Makdessi (31:58):

I know

Chynah Boise (31:59):

You got pretty well last summer, <laugh>.

Emma Makdessi (32:01):

It’s so much fun.

Chynah Boise (32:03):

And there’s a fashion show and it’s goofy and fun and gorgeous.

Emma Makdessi (32:08):

Yeah. And a trivia night trivia a talent show, of course.

Chynah Boise (32:13):

Oh, Yeah. Yeah. Just some, just like, I, I mean, I feel like we could be here an hour talking about all of the really amazing and

Emma Makdessi (32:20):

Only an hour, days,

Chynah Boise (32:22):

Days, truly

Emma Makdessi (32:23):

Days. I haven’t even talked about our wellness team. I haven’t even talked about our mental health volunteers like you. Who are there to support campers.

Chynah Boise (32:32):

Yep.

Emma Makdessi (32:32):

You know, we’re not a therapeutic camp, but we really invest in having mental health folks on our team to support and continue to support our campers. Because of what comes up. You know, we’re so committed to the care and the wellbeing of our campers.

Chynah Boise (32:48):

Yeah. And the campers know who we are. They know that they can come to us, they know what to come to us,

Emma Makdessi (32:53):

And they sure do.

Chynah Boise (32:54):

And they sure do.

Emma Makdessi (32:55):

They sure Do.

Chynah Boise (32:56):

And I love it. And you know, being a team of, of three mental health providers so that we can be available to campers as needed. And, and meeting daily to go over needs. Again, a lot of intentionality.

Emma Makdessi (33:13):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (33:14):

And that’s just one,

Emma Makdessi (33:16):

it’s one small piece,

Chynah Boise (33:17):

one small piece, small piece. So that’s, that’s something that caregivers and providers who who are working with youth can be thinking of is that the youth really are wrapped around. During, during that time. So if you have concerns about your young person’s ability to, to be away at a summer camp, if you’re, if you have concerns about their mental health there are behavioral concerns. If there are medical concerns, please talk to Emma. Don’t, don’t make assumptions that your camper or potential camper. Isn’t ready for summer camp because we may be able to make something work. We may not be able to.

Emma Makdessi (34:02):

Right. But that doesn’t mean that that’s forever.

Chynah Boise (34:05):

Right. Right. So definitely reach out and try. So I, I think that that goes right into you know, I’m a, I’m a, I’m a caregiver listening, or I am a child welfare worker with a queer youth on my caseload. And I’m thinking that camp outright might be a good fit for them. You know, I’m worried about where they sleep at night. What information can you give me about lodging?

Emma Makdessi (34:31):

Sure. So campers get to select the cabins that they wanna be in. So we have a trans mask or mask spectrum cabin, trans fem, or fem spectrum cabin, and then a gender liberated cabin. And so campers get to select which ones they wanna be in. What my primary concern is by age. So we have our 13 to early 15 in a cabin, and our older 15 to 17 in cabins together. So we’re…. The only sort of separation will happen because of age, but otherwise campers get to select which cabin they wanna be in. And it’s shared living. You are in a cabin tucked away in the woods. It’s beautiful, but you’re close <laugh>. you know, you’re close to other people. It’s, there’s bunk beds and each cabin has a volunteer in it, at least one. What else? There’s no electricity, there’s no running water, but there is a bathhouse that has electricity, running water, hot water, private showers or single stall showers. Same thing. Stalled toilets and a line of sinks. You know, so there’s also outdoor showers in this bathhouse, which are my favorite.

Chynah Boise (35:44):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (35:45):

That’s very love. The outdoor showers.

Chynah Boise (35:47):

Very, very cool. Yeah. Okay. So you know, we’re talking about youth, right? And youth do crazy stuff. What is supervision like? You mentioned a staff person in each cabin. How can I know that my, my youth isn’t going to get into some shenanigans?

Emma Makdessi (36:06):

Well, <laugh> campers will always get into shenanigans, <laugh>, you know, but we have a pretty high ratio, it’s almost feels like a one-to-one ratio, recognizing that there is a little bit more of a need with and trans youth. So, you know, we have about 60 campers on site, and if we include our leaders in training, we have almost close to 50 volunteers. And so that’s, that’s one way we make sure that we have… I don’t, I don’t wanna say eyes ’cause we’re not watching.

Chynah Boise (36:40):

Right.

Emma Makdessi (36:41):

You know, but I think it’s more of being there to support, have enough people to support our campers. Also camp in itself, the site is a pretty small contained site, but, you know, like, you know, how do we keep campers from being, getting up to stuff? I mean, we are, we’re, we’re there, we’re present. You know, our volunteers are always hanging out with campers. You know, we talk about camper safety all the time at our pre-camp training with our volunteers. You know, we, we ensure that we’re keeping camp as safe as we can for our campers and our volunteers. Does that answer your question?

Chynah Boise (37:23):

It Does. Have, we talked about the X and O outlaws?

Emma Makdessi (37:26):

Oh no, we haven’t talked about the x and o outlaws. You want me to talk about the X and O outlaws?

Chynah Boise (37:33):

I just think that that’s something too that you know, if, if adults are concerned. About youth knowing their boundaries around risky behaviors the X and O outlaws cover pretty much the gambit, and they tell us.

Emma Makdessi (37:50):

Right. So the X and O outlaws were created by outright youth. Actually years ago, and actually as of I would say maybe two years now, we revisited them. Our outright youth came up with updated, essentially community agreements and the name X and O, outlaws remained because the youth were like, this is a cool, like, we’re, we’re fine keeping it.

Chynah Boise (38:15):

Yeah. <Laugh>.

Emma Makdessi (38:15):

as that. And so we do bring those X and O outlaws to camp. So our community agreements, and they’re really rooted in the way we treat each other and the way we talk to each other, how we show up, you know, what the expectation is. And there are a few, like non-negotiables. You know, like many youth facing programs have, you know. So, and, and that is, it makes it pretty clear about what we will work with at camp and what you cannot bring to camp. And it’s a great way for us to, to work with campers and for volunteers to be able to reference them as we engage in those conversations around accountability too, as they come up. Yeah. And then, you know, like any shared space, there are also cabin agreements that are created.

Chynah Boise (39:05):

Yeah.

Emma Makdessi (39:05):

Between the campers and that cabin counselor. So along kind of every step of the way, there’s, we’re shaping what your week is going to look like.

Chynah Boise (39:16):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And from my experience, there’s not typically a lot of kicking and screaming about it. Campers are pretty much on board with Yeah. This is the space that we wanna exist in together.

Emma Makdessi (39:29):

Yeah. Yeah.

Chynah Boise (39:30):

It’s beautiful. So I ask those questions in hopes of assuaging. I know that parents and caregivers can have concerns about youth. So I wanted to, to touch on some of those. My last kind of rapid fire question is, I’m listening to this and I don’t have or even know a youth, but I’ve been so moved by this conversation that I wanna help. What do I do? Emma

Emma Makdessi (39:59):

<Laugh>, you wanna help? First of all, thanks for wanting to help because we need as many allies and supporters of and trans youth right now. And there are so many ways to get involved in the work that we do that Outright Vermont does. And the best place I can direct folks to is our website, because….outrightvt.org, I really hope I got that right too.

Chynah Boise (40:25):

I will add it to the show notes.

Emma Makdessi (40:26):

I did. I got it right outrightvt.org, because there you will learn a little bit more about who we are as an organization, what our values are, and ways to get involved. If you’re looking to volunteer your time, if you’re looking to be at camp as a volunteer, if you’re looking to donate, if you’re looking to show up at an event or whatever, that’s gonna be the best place for you to see where, where you fit in in this, in this movement and in this work.

Chynah Boise (40:59):

Awesome. And we don’t always only need monetary donations. Sometimes we need stuffed animal donations.

Emma Makdessi (41:06):

Oh my gosh. <Laugh>. So <laugh>. I think from this point forward, we’ll always need <laugh>. And for folks who don’t know, we have a Franken stuffies workshop at camp where we have a whole bunch of stuffed animals, and then we pull them apart and create new stuffed animals. <Laugh>. And it is a, it was, it’s amazing. It’s probably one of that, one of my favorite workshops that, and sockapella

Chynah Boise (41:32):

Oh Sockapella,

Emma Makdessi (41:32):

So, sockapella, you make a sock puppet, a queer sock puppet, and then your sock puppet sings. And so then you perform at the talent show and it’s really sweet.

Chynah Boise (41:44):

Yeah. One last anecdote that I’ll share from my first summer volunteering. I <laugh>,

Emma Makdessi (41:52):

I took, is it, are you talking about when I took you into the sockcapella workshop

Chynah Boise (41:55):

When Emma took me into the soccer Capella workshop and these, these youth were singing How far I’ll go from the Pixar movie Moana. And I sobbed, I sobbed tears running down my face.

Emma Makdessi (42:11):

I do remember that.

Chynah Boise (42:12):

And Hey, Hey. The, the lead for that activity pointed at me and told all of the kids to look at me because it made me cry. <Laugh>.

Emma Makdessi (42:24):

Yeah. I mean, it’s, I think what’s kid is like, you know, when you have a sock puppet on your hand mm-hmm <affirmative>. And you just open its mouth and then suddenly it’s this like, quiet camper.

Chynah Boise (42:35):

Yes.

Emma Makdessi (42:36):

Who you didn’t know had a voice, and suddenly they’re just this beautiful voice comes out.

Chynah Boise (42:42):

Yes.

Emma Makdessi (42:42):

And it’s this camper that you never expected.

Chynah Boise (42:46):

And under no other circumstances would they use that voice.

Emma Makdessi (42:49):

Right. And here they are, just like

Chynah Boise (42:51):

Belting.

Emma Makdessi (42:52):

Yeah. It’s one of my favorites.

Chynah Boise (42:54):

I’m gonna cry again.

Emma Makdessi (42:55):

I know, I know. You are <laugh>. I do remember that. That’s one of the moments that I remember actually, taking you into that sockapella workshop. <Laugh>,

Chynah Boise (43:04):

I remember the pointing and laughing. But <laugh>,

Emma Makdessi (43:08):

I think mainly it was, oh my gosh. Look at how impactful

Chynah Boise (43:12):

It was. I I will also add that Hey, Hey. Did pull me aside after and talked about how important it was for those kids to, to see how moved.

Emma Makdessi (43:22):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (43:23):

so I’m glad that my public public embarrassment could provide,

Emma Makdessi (43:27):

Be so affirming,

Chynah Boise (43:28):

Provide that could be affirming. Yeah. That’s all I want. So one more time so that folks can add it to their calendars. What’s the window that applications will be open?

Emma Makdessi (43:38):

Okay. I’m gonna give you that date, and I’m gonna also tell you the dates of camp.

Chynah Boise (43:42):

Yes, please.

Emma Makdessi (43:43):

Okay. So camper applications open at noon on Monday, February 2nd, and they stay open until probably, I’d say midnight Monday, March 2nd. And campers will find out whether or not there’s a spot for them at camp by that Friday, March 6th Camp. Dates for this summer, there’s two sessions. You pick one session that you wanna go to. The first session is Friday, July 3rd through Thursday, July 9th. And the second session is Saturday, July 11th through Friday, July 17th. Those are the two sessions of Camp Outright this summer.

Chynah Boise (44:24):

Excellent. And I will make sure to put those dates as well as any pertinent links in our show notes. I will also put Emma’s contact information for questions. Please, if you have any questions regarding camper eligibility or the application process, please contact Emma.

Emma Makdessi (44:45):

Can I also say that the volunteer application opens on March 16th and runs through April 24th.

Chynah Boise (44:52):

Excellent. Yes. And similarly, if folks have questions about what that commitment might look like. Or how to make it work, say you wanna volunteer, but you’re not sure if you can swing it, talk to Emma.

Emma Makdessi (45:04):

Yeah, Please.

Chynah Boise (45:05):

It’s an unbelievable experience, life changing. So if it’s something that you think you might be interested in, I encourage you to, to give it a try. Yeah. I am so happy to have had you in the studio. I know that it’s no secret how much I love camp out, right?

Emma Makdessi (45:24):

Yeah.

Chynah Boise (45:25):

…so my bias was widely known throughout this, and I think that we’d highlighted why it is such an important program, and I’m so grateful for what you do for the youth, not only in Vermont but nationwide. Thank you so much.

Emma Makdessi (45:44):

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Cassie Gillespie (45:49):

The Social Work lens is produced by the University of Vermont’s Child Welfare Training Partnership, and the State of Vermont. Our theme music is composed and performed by local band Brick Drop. And our sound production and engineering has been brought to you by Egan Media Productions. We’d also like to give a special thank you to our in-house administrative production assistant Emma Baird. For the Social Work Lens, I’m Cassie Gillespie, and we’ll see you next time.